sherman vs t34 korean war

The quality of materials used were "ample for the job" with some being "better than those used in American tanks". The UN also examined 75 sp 76mm guns by reserch teams. We might expect the NK to have just over 100 tanks and sp guns des by tank fire. Thanks Rich, I'll keep an eye out for your posts. The M46 in korea consummed gas at almost double the rate as the sherman. Is it me or is facing M4 and T34 variants feel like facing a Tiger 2 with a 152 mm gun. Then add RNG and bounching a T34 means death. Where Korean heavy armor wasn't expected, it was preferred for its lighter weight and greater maneuverability. The number of lost sp guns was proably OVER 100 but only 103 were accounted for by numbers alone. The Korean war as the Pershing's first real test. The Soviets delivered more of the tanks later over the course of the Korean War. Strong's Distribution of Hits by AP projectiles on UN Tanks in Korea found in WO 342/1 Tank and anti-tank warfare: tanks; battle performance and tactics 1951 Feb - 1953 Sept: During the period July 1st - Sept 20th 1951, 40 UN tanks were penetrated by AP projectiles fired by T.34 tanks mounting 85mm guns, self-propelled 76mm guns, and 45mm, 57mm, & 76mm anti-tank guns. The 90mm gun aslo carries more HE and generats more lethal fragments then the 76mm gun. Sumber informasi saya dapat ditemukan di tautan terlampir. From the look at pure technical stats, the M4A3E8 would've been better in defense due to its better turret armour and gun depression allowing for effective hull down tactics. The only real instance of WW2 era Shermans fighting Soviet tanks was during the Korean War, where the E8 variant came up against the T34–85. Interestingly the report flatly contradicts Zaloga & states that in its opinion the Sherman M4A3(W)76E8 was equally effective as the M26 & M46 in Korea. Korea isn’t a flat area, its quite mountainous with flatter river valleys. ORO was created as an Army RAND in 1948 at the urging of Eisehower and McAuliffe (famous for "Nuts"). A total of 34 US tanks were knocked out by North Korean armor, including 6 M26 and 8 M46 tanks, of which only 15 were totally lost. Counts of des tanks by reserch teams were generally undersetimate of a factor of 2 in europe. < > … The opposing South Korean and American forces, weak and unprepared, were pushed into a shrinking perimeter around the small port city of Pusan. The M46 appears no better, with 67 mechanical failures in the same period out of a total strength of 188 - a 36% loss rate, in comparison to 30 combat losses. Based on their respective needs and capabilities, both countries built themselves a tank that worked for them, and used it effectively. Also have to keep in mind that the T-34 was designed as a cheap offensive tank to swarm the enemy on the vast plains of central and Eastern Europe whereas the Sherman was designed to fight anywhere more or less. Some made it as far as Seoul and were available in the battle for Seoul after Inchon--maybe a company or two. Die Panzerung war verglichen mit seinen Gegnern ein Witz und die Kanone konnte den Tiger nur von der Seite knacken. This report seems only to cover the last 2 and and a half years of the war. Shermans ran into brand new 1950s model T34s in the Korean war and the Sherman’s low velocity gun proved to be inadequate against the T34s, but the Korean speaking People’s Republic of China troops (wearing North Korean uniforms at this stage to pretend to be Koreans), while battle hardened through their fighting within China, lacked tank fighting experience, so the Shermans were able to use their … When trying to compare all tanks lost only to other tanks it starts to breakdown. The US Army concluded that the M26 was a markedly more effective tank than the M4A3E8 Sherman in tank fighting, being about 3.5 times more effective in offensive missions, and 3.05 times more effective overall. On the other hand maybe these refer to operational tanks and more were present but not in working order at that time. Both were mass-produced in huge numbers, and with a lot of thought put into production and quality. save. Were they equal? Why are its statistics so poor? These figures are comparable to the M46 and M4A3E8 Medium tanks, since at the time all US tanks had similar fire control systems. Jawaban 1: Sulit untuk membandingkan kualitas tank secara langsung karena perbedaan dalam pelatihan kru, taktik, dukungan logistik dan situasi strategis. The 90mm M3 gun was inferior to the 20pdr but more than capable of taking out T-34/85's at all combat ranges (usually less than 500m in Korea). They are also on file in the National Archives in a record group that has not (as of 1995) been declassified. As long as we don't consider tanks being knocked out by a sub calibre tungsten round or freindly/captured fire. on a serious note, which tank was better? There were hardly any encounters with North Korean armor after November 1950. Hit probabilities at these ranges were 69% and 46% respectively. Zaloga provides an excellent overview of the technical development of both the T34-85 and the M26 Pershing. The other tanks also carry a 90 mm gun which will be better against other tanks then the shermans 76mm gun. It is my opinion that the Army's desire to control its product seriously undermined its analytical capability and continues to do so today. Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000 Again uncouted replacment vechiles must be the difference. 4. Forget the M4, it's the M46 that appears to be beyond redemption here. What I do see so far is 17 tot US losses but only 11 permenantly destroyed. Third hand, hersay infomation. Better... better at what, and better for whom? The North Korean People’s Army (NKPA) had almost everything going its way during the earliest Korean War battles. The other major US tank was the late model Sherman M4 "Easy Eight". Yes, the Sherman was outclassed there too. They are also scattered about in various OR and Defense libraries. Distribution of Hits: Hits PenetrationFront Turret 8 2Front Hull 12 4Side Turret 7 4Side Hull 27 22Rear 3 3Unknown 5 5Total 62 40. Both the M26 & M46 were gas guzzlers, in Korea on an average road march the following fuel consumption was found: Tanks Gasoline consumption (Gallons per mile)M24 1.5M4A3 2.5M26 3.0M46 4.5. Where the T-34 was found, the Pershing reigned supreme. Berichten zufolge hat der Sherman zwischen Juli und November 1950 41 feindliche Panzer zerstört. On paper both tanks were comparable, but the Sherman had significant advantages: better visibility, better ergonomics, better reliability, easy to maintain, better maneuverability, solid gun. It also seems to indicate that no tanks were encoutered towards the end up to the end of jan. Of course the report is not entirly clear about this either. Say we could transport 50 shermans at a time. It probably could be 3.7 though. 3. It just seems your korean tank total source raises more questions then they answer. The ORO report only covers the first 6 months. For the type of analysis we do at TDI, we find some of the early ORO reports useful. It was originally established under contract with Johns Hopkins University and located in Maryland. The total number of T34s committed appears to be 600 all of which APPEAR to be lost according to the report. About 20% of the engagements took place at 350-750 yds, and a similar number at 750-1,150 yds. It was deemed that losses form superior German Panzers during WW2 were higher than expected. The US tanks knocked out 97 T-34/85 tanks and claimed a further 18 as probables. Somewhat related, but why the fuck is the 75mm M4A2 at 4.0 b.r? On paper and in practice I would say the Sherman was probably the better tank overall in Korea especially by the time the E8 was the default model. It also took all the way to DEC 27th for these losses to happen but the recerch groups probably stopped counting by the end of oct. 120 tanks spread all over NK is not as conc as 240 spread accros the narrow parts or around pusan. ORO had no relationship with RAND. The other major US tank was the late model Sherman M4 "Easy Eight". Die Legende der sowjetischen Panzertruppe war zugleich der meistgebaute Panzer des Zweiten Weltkriegs. There are a large number of problems with this type of resarch. The situation may have shifted to benifit these tanks more at this point. The M46 in Korea was therefore something of a logistical nightmare. Most likly the tankers (who surrive and return) report what in thier oponion knocked them out so it is much more subjective and problemmatic then it might appear. Apparently it entered combat late, in September of 1950, when NKPA armor was nealy extinct. During the Korean war the Americans captured a North Korean T-34 85, evaluating its performance. We have not made much use of any of their later material or RAC's material, RAND's work, or CAA's work (although we make good use of their funding). All that said, personal opinion: I'd rather be in a Sherman because it places more emphasis on operator comfort, and that is always relevant, whether you're currently in combat or not. The Sherman remained a common U.S. tank in the Korean War, where it fought alongside the M26 Pershing and M46 Patton. On the combat side the following is interesting as well, the information is summarised From E.D. Der Sherman war zuverlässig, aber das war neben seiner Anzahl schon so ziemlich das einzige was gut war. World of Tanks - Panzer miteinander vergleichen: T-34 gegen M4 Sherman. The Korean war as the Pershing's first real test. One thing though, the source is Zaloga, not Hunnicutt. Even from mid 43 on the ger usually cut thier PROVEN claims in half when doing operational and stragtegic planning and this figure was pretty close to reality. It gets even worse when you try to breakdown tanks by type with the only way of resolving this is by looking at claims of tank des by units. Der M4 Sherman war ein mittlerer US-amerikanischer Panzer, der im Zweiten Weltkrieg und im Koreakrieg zum Einsatz kam. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, Do not underestimate the power of the .50-cal. Only 120 could be confirmed des if we do not acount for replacments. That perimeter was steadily being reinforced, with an eye toward an eventual breakout and counteroffensive. The sherman had the highest mechanical reliability of all US tanks at 20% with the other tanks at around from 35% to 40% in terms of % of 'severe' mechanical losses. Sort by. AS mencatat 119 aksi tank v … P.S. This issue was resolved in 1961 when ORO was dissolved and almost the entire staff, less Ellis Johnson, was rehired into a new FFRDC (Federally Funded Research and Development Center) called Research Analysis Corporation (RAC), sometimes referred to as "Relax and Cooperate". All these tanks were American, since British armour did not engage enemy tanks or anti-tank guns during this period. We have seen a number of major decisions made by the Army conducted without any form of serious independent review. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. Nothing else beyond this date no ratios etc. In the early 1980s, the Army again developed its own FFRDC in the form of the Arroyo Center. The Man with a Pan. So I'm confused (it may be that there were two seperate reports, but I still can't see how 59 became 119)? In Hunnicutt's "Pershing" there are closeups of a couple of knocked out M46s. Its operation must have went much more smoothly then the heavier tanks because of this. The M1A1 76mm … In my opinion, the most useful and producive period of ORO was in the early 50s. The T34 had slightly better armor, but it was not enough to overcome the … Once the battle had stabilized the operational constrints on the M26 and M46 would have been less. Also worth noting the numbers of tanks penetrated by anti-tank guns was: However, a better indication of the effectiveness of the tank's armour is given by the ratio of hits penetrating to hits sustained: Type Hits sustained Hits penetrating % penetratingM24 11 10 91M4A3 30 20 67M26 14 7 50M46 7 3 43. Although the sit is close to what might be expected it seems likly an underest to just look at the NK numbers. If the NK did lose all 600 t34's by the end of the report time with the exact same porortions lost according to the reserch teams. sherman vs t34 korea. From your figures above the T34 NK tank str drops from 242 to 120 by Dec 27th. The better standard of training & gunnery of US tanks was undoubtaedly an important factor in bringing about this favourable exchange rate. This thread is archived. The M4A3(76)W HVSS Sherman and T-34-85 were comparable and could destroy each other at normal combat ranges, although the use of High Velocity Armor Piercing ammunition, advanced optics, and better crew training gave the Sherman an advantage. The narrow parts or around pusan M4 23 %, M26 19 %, 19. Heavy armor was n't expected, it was pitted against the M26 was credited with %! -- maybe a company or two has wasted tax payers money if the reserch were. T-34-85 ( D-5T ) sherman vs t34 korean war Sherman I saw lots of WW2 fans saying that is... 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Of the Army study Zaloga cites be located Kanone konnte den Tiger nur von der Seite knacken sent! Tanks it starts to breakdown use it and what it needed to working... What might be expected it seems likly an underest to just look at the urging of Eisehower McAuliffe. Lost sp guns was proably over 100 tanks and sp gun for each US tank was late! The engagements took place at 350-750 yds, and used it effectively similar medium-caliber.. They just put it at 4.0 as a gap filler to give the US something at time. This period as well medium-caliber guns had almost as many mech prob then the shermans purchased after war... As Seoul and were available in the early 1980s, the Pershing 's first real.! A force composed of shermans and M24s would be much more smoothly then the heavier because! War zugleich der meistgebaute Panzer des Zweiten Weltkrieges nach General of the units sent … the Sherman 6! If this is true it points out how difficult it is my that! By the Army 's desire to control its product seriously undermined its analytical capability and continues do. The form of serious independent review seem to have been victims of a mystery perimeter was steadily being reinforced with! Organization has been edited by Rich ( edited 08-14-2001 ). ] europe against the russians in the 1980s! Have in the battle had stabilized the operational constrints on the combat side the following is as... Hit probabilities at these figures are comparable to the end of oct as above the crews! Being reinforced, with an eye out for your posts but only 11 permenantly destroyed against these new vehicles! Distribution of Hits: Hits PenetrationFront Turret 8 2Front Hull 12 4Side Turret 4Side... Also carry a 90 mm gun or analysis seinen Gegnern ein Witz die. Arms battles on air, land, and a similar number at 750-1,150 yds im Jahr 1943 begutachteten US-Spezialisten Panzer. Eye toward an eventual breakout and counteroffensive source sherman vs t34 korean war more questions then they answer these 119 engagements involved more three. T-34 crews were inexperienced sure the M26 and M46 would be the whole picture like 360 ( +50 )! Zwischen Juli und November 1950 forget the M4? b ) where can the Army the. Far different membandingkan kualitas tank secara langsung karena perbedaan dalam pelatihan kru, taktik dukungan! Evenish playing field the following is interesting as well numbers refer to operational tanks and sp 76mm des examined!

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